The Paceline Forum - OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

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- - OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=174630)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnhood (Post 1828489)

I have never thought much of VW cars. I had two weak moments, one back in '68 when I bought a bug ('66 model), and a used Audi 5000 in '87. Never again. They are a button hole short of junk.

Yup, what you bought 30 or 40 years ago is exactly like what's going on now. I've owned 7 VWs, never had any issue with any of them, from the 61 Beetle including my JSW.

Guess you've never driven a K car. I'm tapping out.

From Popular Mechanics

"The 50-state light-duty vehicle limit for emissions of nitrogen oxides is 0.07 grams per mile. In Western Europe, the limit is 0.29. Reducing NOx to nitrogen and oxygen is much harder with a diesel engine because the exhaust is typically cooler and contains less oxygen compared to a gas engine."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis (Post 1828429)

You're obviously too old for that car. Drive it like a 19 yr old kid and you'll be fine. ;)

Ah, that makes some sense especially for up shifts. The downshift issue is just plain weird -- I notice it a lot when cornering without gunning it. The car seems to want to slow to a stop unless I stomp on the gas and then go into hyperspace. I'll keep working on it, though I'm tempted to bring it back and say I want a gas model with a manual. And I got the wrong color too. I'm good in a lot of situations but apparently buying a new car is not one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjbraun (Post 1828409)

As I purchased a JSW TDI in March, I'm curious to see how this plays out. I expect at a minimum, the warranty on the car will be increased considerably beyond 3 yrs/36k. Heck, maybe they even replace my JSW (with only 9k miles on it,) with a urea burning 2016.

I bought mine in February, with just over 8K on it now. As for the free replacement -- that'd be nice, but in your dreams...

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelman (Post 1828441)

There's no sport mode. But the driver can shift manually.

My 2014 JSW has a Sport mode. Not sure why that would be missing on the 2015 models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by velomonkey (Post 1828506)

Thanks! Much appreciated! Now if someone knows how much NOx the TDI is currently emitting, that would be interesting. In the meantime, I guess we can assume, based on the data the EPA has released so far, that the number is up to 40x.07, which is ~10x the European standard.

That leaves me wondering if TDIs sold in the US are dirtier than the ones sold in Europe. I can't imagine they are. But if not, I don't understand the discrepancy. Actually, I guess "as much as 40 times as much pollution as allowed under the Clean Air Act" could mean many different things.

Eh, time will tell. For now, I'm going to try not to think about the fact that one of my cars has been rendered nearly worthless by a company that used concentration camp labor during WWII.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjbraun (Post 1828534)

My 2014 JSW has a Sport mode. Not sure why that would be missing on the 2015 models.

I suspect I was wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Robb (Post 1828436)

If these VWs have a "Sport Mode" button that usually makes a transmission upshift and downshift at higher engine rpm so the car feels more lively. Failing that you can probably shift it manually can't you?

Of course they have S mode. And Tiptronic, too. It's funny: I have a 2014 JSW TDI with DSG and have never experienced these issues. I drove a 2015 GSW TDI with DSG when they first came out while my car was having the service campaign, and aside from shifting into and out of S mode being slightly different, the cars drove just the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelman (Post 1828441)

There's no sport mode. But the driver can shift manually.

Of course there is S mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by palincss (Post 1828541)

Of course there is S mode.

As I said, a mere two comments above yours, I was wrong. It's not even the first time today that's happened. I'm hoping I can make it to bed without another such mishap, but I can't promise.

Not surprised: ex owner of a Audi A4-1.8 turbomotor, shared with VW. Google class action suite on that motor...

When I had my car at MY mechanic (after getting hosed by Audi dealerships(s), I was told that when the US gov said all imports had to have the onboard diagnostics (OBD) port, VW/Audi added the plug in ports, but the wiring wasn�š complete, just a dummy port. When they finally made them functional, they had their own codes/computers readers, not universal as the gov mandated.

VW was fined big time for that, so I was told

I loved my 2001 A-4 when it was new, problem is, they don't stay new, and I'll never buy an Audi/VW ever again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelman (Post 1828536)

Now if someone knows how much NOx the TDI is currently emitting, that would be interesting. In the meantime, I guess we can assume, based on the data the EPA has released so far, that the number is up to 40x.07, which is ~10x the European standard.

I guess that depends on what you mean by "current." For a 2012 JSW, the WVU study has your answer: up to ~1.5 g/km in urban traffic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelman (Post 1828536)

For now, I'm going to try not to think about the fact that one of my cars has been rendered nearly worthless by a company that used concentration camp labor during WWII.

Oh, c'mon. This is hardly the time for a Godwin's Law violation. :rolleyes:

If it makes you feel any better, I'll buy your car for worthless + $500.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benb (Post 1828264)

My impression is there is more here than "turning the catalyzer off". It sounds like it also involved running the engine lean, which helps fuel economy and some other emissions but just happens to hurt a lot with NOx emissions... so if they have to turn the catalyzer on & remap the fuel fuel economy would go down.. just a question of how much. If it was just about the catalyst and the fuel mapping didn't make much of a difference you would have thought they wouldn't lean the mixture so much. If the fuel savings is significant enough to risk this it would imply the fuel savings will be noticed by drivers.

It sounds like a real achilles heel for diesels... run rich, you get clean NOx emissions but sub-optimal MPG and particulates, run lean you get low particulates and great MPG but poor NOx levels.

I guess I don't understand why the fuel & air can't mixed ahead of time like a petrol engine to get this under control. (From what I've read the only reasons petrol engines don't also have this problem are a) they are able to more carefully optimize fuel:air ratios and ensure that almost all of the oxygen is burned off. b) Lower compression ratio. )

Oh well have fun filling the Urea tank in the 2016+ VWs since that solves this issue too.

All internal combustion engines have the tradeoff between lean running and emissions. The issue is not lean running, it's that diesels are most efficient when they run hot. Hotter exhaust means higher NOx.

Adblue is not a universal cure. Maybe cranking up the dosage for cars equipped with it may get emissions to pass without the switch, maybe not. Remains to be seen. But for those of us 2009-2014 owners, it's going to take some creative design and extensive modification to update the hundreds of thousands of vehicles sold. A software detuning would be unacceptable. It would be materially changing the vehicle I bought, which I bought specifically to avoid using Adblue. It's going to take a while and it could get very messy. Meanwhile there's a stop sale order in the US and Canada. The clock is ticking.

I had the emissions update done to mine last month, the first attempt by VW to cover this up. My fuel mileage dropped a little bit. Regens occur at about the same intervals, but it runs rough during the cycle. It was a small step backwards.

Chip mods are a tough deal in CARB states like MA and CA. They are easily detected during inspections.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goonster (Post 1828554)

Oh, c'mon. This is hardly the time for a Godwin's Law violation.

I don't think it's a Godwin violation if the people in question actually collaborated with the Nazis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goonster (Post 1828554)

Oh, c'mon. This is hardly the time for a Godwin's Law violation. :rolleyes:

Since I'm not involved with this particular argument I can post these:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kZNInNJY4E...gen-beetle.png

http://orig07.deviantart.net/7fc5/f/...ba-d5sgew2.jpg

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/6...g/p01fwg0g.jpg

http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/sp/43...tle-hitler.png